Donnie Darko
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Hmm here's a theory of mine, a slightly depressing one, but a theory nonetheless. As far as I can remember - I have only seen the film once and that was a very long time ago - Donnie was saved from death by this vision of a "bunny". He spent the rest of the film looking for this "bunny" and found that there was some guy who had a "bunny" suit on. This may be sounding like the mafia pet shop in family guy...
By the end of the film Donnie realises that, like the song suggests (and is right), the world is a mad world. Who would want to live in a mad world? So he killed himself. No message from god, the time travel:utterly meaningless. Brilliant film.
After writing this, my arguement may seem a little, to use the correct americanism, lame. I apologize. Deeply.
>>By Tchock (Friday, 27 Aug 2004 17:23)
The movie is brilliant, one of the best I've ever seen. It actually had a plot... a very confusing one but it was still a plot. I miss that in films. And the sense of humour in the film was class... oh yeah, this may sound lame the the rabbit guy really freaked me out O_o;
>>By PatchworkDove (Friday, 27 Aug 2004 18:29)
It's astounding to me that this one little movie has taken up 26 pages of discussion! That's insanity! When is Richard Kelly gonna make something else, is what I'm wondering? We need a new film to obsessively dissect and overanalyze.
>>By The Walrus (Friday, 27 Aug 2004 19:04)
i read somwhere he's directing a film called Southland Tales or somthing for 2005 sometime. He's not giving too much away bout it but hes described it as "30% comedy, 30% musical, 30% thriller, and 10% science fiction" which sounds erm interesting. lets hope the musical thing works. apparently its gonna have sean william scott, sarah michelle gellar, tim blake and kevin smith in it. a much more well known cast than Donny Darko. wot u think about that?
>>By Beth88 (Sunday, 29 Aug 2004 20:51)
Hmmmm.....that IS interesting. I guess we'll have to wait and see, though.
>>By The Walrus (Monday, 30 Aug 2004 18:23)
Hey, great discussions on this site about Donnie Darko. I have only gotten to about page
13 of this site, but thought I would stop and offer the following. The number of days in the
countdown is really important. Numerology is important to many theological discussions;
see one such discussion on 28 days (also influential in "28 days later" another cool film):
"In the light of this interpretation we can summarize the import of the verses as follows:
1. When knowledge of the Unseen is concerned with the Divine Messages this will happen:
A. Before the appearance of the Apostle. In this case the Unseen foreshadows his
appearance, and this is an endorsement of the Apostle.
B. At the time of the appearance of the Apostle where the revelation of the Unseen is an
endorsement and evidence for him.
C. After the going of the Apostle. Here the role of the angels continues whereby they inspire
people to explore and extract the hidden treasures of the message.
2. The Hour will not come until the message of the Apostle is completely delivered and the
hidden meanings discovered as suggested in the verse: "And He encompasses all the
mysteries that are with them and takes account of every single thing (being in a numerical
form)." (72:28)
What the angels inspire of Allah's knowledge is only what Allah has permitted. What is
learned is only what Allah has taught. Allah has counted everything which is a number, that
is, anything whose reality is based on numbers. Therefore, understanding the numerical
basis of things brings us closer to understanding their true nature and reality. This means
that our understanding of Qur'anic numbers brings us closer to the true understanding. This
includes Qur'anic prophecies pertaining to the future."
You can find the full text of this discussion at the following web address:
http://
fakir60.tripod.com/
significance_of_number_in_sura_7.
htm.
Also, as another post indicated, the number 42 is the answer to the universe according to
the super computer in the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy (HGG).
Another cool site is: http:
//www.godstruthfortoday.org/
Library/bullinger/app10.html.
This page talks about the significance of numbers in the bible. I am attaching text for the
numbers 2, 4, 6, 10, and 12. Note that the numbers in the countdown are all multiples of 2
or even numbers. Thus 42 is a multiple of 4 x 10 + 2. When you multiply numbers together,
they possess the character of the multipliers greatly intensified. Here is some text from
this site:
"TWO. Denotes difference. If two different persons agree in testimony it is conclusive.
Otherwise two implies opposition, enmity, and division, as was the work of the Second day.
Compare the use of the word "double" applied to "heart", "tongue", "mind", etc.
FOUR. Denotes creative works (3 + 1), and always has reference to the material creation,
as pertaining to the earth, and things "under the sun", and things terrestrial.
SIX. Denotes the human number. Man was created on the sixth day; and this first ocurrence
of the number makes it (and all multiples of it) the hall-mark of all connected with man. He
works six days. The hours of his day are a multiple of six. Athaliah usurped the throne of
Judah six years. The great men who have stood out in defiance of God (Goliath and
Nebuchadnezzar and Antichrist) are all emphatically marked by this number.
TEN. Denotes Ordinal perfection. Another new first; after the ninth digit, when numeration
commences anew.
TWELVE. Denotes Governmental perfection. It is the number or factor of all numbers
connected with government: whether by Tribes or Apostles, or in measurements of time, or
in things which have to do with government in the heavens and the earth."
Just some food for thought.
VsunshineV
>>By VsunshineV (Saturday, 4 Sep 2004 21:17)
Sorry about the double post, but forgot to include something that is important in the last webpage I cited.
Other numbers follow the laws which govern the smaller numbers, as being their factors, sums, products or multiples: that is to say 24 is 12 x 2, a higher form of 12.
25 = 52. Grace intensified.
27 = 33. Divinity intensified.
28 = 7 x 4. Spiritual perfection in connection with the earth.
29 = 33. Intensifying of Divine judgement.
30 = 3 x 10. Divine perfection, applied to order.
40 = 10 x 4. Divine order applied to earthly things. Hence, the number of probation.
VsunshineV
>>By VsunshineV (Saturday, 4 Sep 2004 21:21)
lets not forget..this story is coming from the mind of a medicated person, he has a mental illness...so what he perceives could all not be real. I know a few people who are mentally unstable and hear voices and violins......Donnie could be living in his own little made up world....coca
>>By coca (Sunday, 5 Sep 2004 02:31)
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ok everyone i would just like to spread how amazed i am with donnie darko]
i have come up with an interesting scenario:
when donnie is talking to the science teacher about time travel, they mention about life paths that and that they are mapped out ....well i'll come back to that in a second....
donnie brings up loniness a lot throughout the movie he's afraid of being alone he doesn't want to be alone
but because he has mental health issues which no one understands he feels alone
when he dies he is given another chance to chose a different path to see what would of happened if he hadn't of died but in the end everyone dies so he would still have been alone anyway
as for frank he is the 'manipulated dead' he is a guide to donnie in the different path he makes thinks happen for a reason
'they made me do it' -also about lonliness saying 'they' made me do it opposed to 'he'
more people are involved.
also he see's frank when he or someone else is asleep like in the movies when gretchen is asleep which is my favourite scene:
favourite quotes: 'have you ever seen a portal burnt to the ground'
'why are you wearing that stupid bunny suit?', 'why are you wearing that stupid man suit?'
favourite music from film: (the above scene) steve baker and carmen daye - the port
stupid man siuit
micheal andrews - time travel
thankyou....that will be all!
>>By withinme (Sunday, 5 Sep 2004 20:11)
Allow me, if I may, to correct an error I read on the first page.
**********************************************
In the cult movie Donnie Darko, Drew Barrymore’s character tells a class of English Literature pupils about a British writer who said "cellar door" was the most beautiful sounding combination of words in the English language. The writer was JRR Tolkien, author of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, and hero to millions of schoolboys. A language fanatic, Tolkien studied Latin, Greek, Finnish, French and Italian, and devised entire language systems of his own, including the now revered Elvish, as used in his most famous trilogy.
In his essay "English and Welsh", he put forward the theory that words have a beauty that is often quite separate from their meaning. He wrote: "Most English-speaking people ... will admit that Cellar Door is ‘beautiful’, especially if dissociated from its sense and from its spelling".
******************************
This was found on a website, which after led me to look up the essay and I found the quotation to be accurate.
I'd have to say it fits the discription of Cellar Door much better then the Edgar Allan Poe story. I have so much more to offer on this movie, although obviously late into the discussion. I'll simply have to read through and attempt not to repeate. But at the moment, I must head to bed.
>>By DonnieDarko (Tuesday, 7 Sep 2004 12:16)
oh and withinme, not to double post, but
"donnie brings up loniness a lot throughout the movie he's afraid of being alone he doesn't want to be alone
but because he has mental health issues which no one understands he feels alone"
I'll agree with you Donnie doesn't want to feel alone, but he has no mental heath issues. Hate to break it to you, but his pills are placebo's. Something you learn from the deleted scenes and the Directors Cut. If that's a bit to vague, allow me to elaborate, if his pills are placebo's his doctor(Thurman) can't find anything mentally wrong with him that needs correction by medication, and if you'll notice she hasn't gotten anywhere with the therapy. That's why she tells his parents she wants to continue the hypno-therapy, to see if she can find anything other then a confusing teenage mind.
"when he dies he is given another chance to chose a different path to see what would of happened if he hadn't of died but in the end everyone dies so he would still have been alone anyway"
Donnie only dies once in the film. At the end. Had he chosen to live everyone would have died with him when the world died, so he wouldn't have been alone when he died.
"as for frank he is the 'manipulated dead' he is a guide to donnie in the different path he makes thinks happen for a reason"
Frank is the "manipulated dead" making everything happen for a reason, the reason is to make sure Donnie decides to stay in his room on October 2nd and keep the real universe from being destroyed.
"favourite quotes: 'have you ever seen a portal burnt to the ground'"
Quote:"Have you ever seen a portal before." -Frank shows Donnie a portal on the movie screen(while Gretchen is sleeping)
Quote:"Burn it to the ground"-Frank is showing Donnie Mr.Cunningham's house and gives him his advice, which Donnie happily takes.
>>By DonnieDarko (Tuesday, 7 Sep 2004 12:32)
Okay, I have read all the posts and wanted to add something about the Psychiatrist. She is a manipulated living and she is pivotal in the way that she "pushes" Donnie to make his decision. In fact, a lot of what she does is either unethical or immoral or both. For example, if she truly believed that Donnie was a schizophrenic she should have discussed witht the parents placing him on medications, instead she has him on placebos and no one knows this--at least his parents should have been informed. This is truly unethical because she is refusing him treatment when in fact she believes that he needs treatment. Instead of making him hallucinate, the medications should have stopped the hallucinations; thus, many of the posts on this site are incorrect when they say that the medications caused his hallucinations. Also, giving patients "advise" about they should or shouldn't believe is also unethical. Hence, she should not have told Donnie the stuff she did at the end of the movie, i.e., that he would be alone with Frank, the Rabbit. In fact, as soon as Frank appeared and she learned of the fact that he was seeing and doing violent things that an imaginary rabbit was telling him to do, he should have been hospitalized or placed on real drugs. The fact that she allowed the hallucinations and other things to go on points to the fact that she is a manipulated living who is very instrumental to Donnie making his choice.
I do believe that Donnie had to die in order for the universe to be able to return to normal. I also believe that in the tangent universe, which began with a rift in the 4th dimension (the jet engine is just an artifact that allowed Donnie to know that the rift had occurred), that this is the only timeline. That is, the tangent universe is the normal universe gone off course (so there is no timeline for the normal universe). Thus, when Donnie travels in god's channel, he can see the future (which would have happened if the normal universe continued on its course). So Donnie eventually realizes and uses his 4th dimentional powers to guide the jet engine into the wormhole. He does not time travel, but the engine does, back to the beginning of the rift in the 4th dimension. By doing this, he heals the rifts, and knowing what he does by the end of the film he chooses to continue in God's channel in the normal universe. He knows he has saved the universe, his mom and sister, the love of his life, and Frank, his sister's boyfriend. He laughs because he believes it was all so simple and now he not only has the answers to all of the questions he had throughout the film, but he is not alone when he dies because he has proof that there is a God. Moreover, he knows that God allowed him that time in the tangent universe in order to understand that life was truly worth living and that all of our time on earth is meant to touch and improve the lives of others. That by learning to love, he learned the value not only of his own life but the lives of everyone on earth. He learned that there truly were beautiful memories to fill the void of existence.
I am not a big religious freak, but I believe the above interpretation actually really answers most of the questions in the movie. I only really have one issue left with the movie and that is that Donnie was supposedly selected at random for being the Living Receiver. I don't believe that that is true. I believe, following the above theory, that Donnie was especially selected by God to be the Living Receiver. Donnie was told by Frank (in a deleted scene--which yes I believe is part of the Director's original vision, otherwise why film it at all and time constraints and cutting it out don't mean it wasn't in the original story?) that God was watching him or all of his children (can't remember exactly). As the Living Receiver he got something he desparately needed and would have been doomed without, the opportunity to love and to love others in return in a way that was more closely in line with divine love. Thus, I don't believe it was random that it was Donnie as the Receiver. Also, because he is asked to sacrifice his life, he is given the opportunity to understand exactly why it is so important and it has to be a willing choice--free will within a determined future. He accepts his fate and returns to the heavenly father. Hence, there is free will and there is destiny and they intertwine and meet in God's Channel.
>>By VsunshineV (Friday, 10 Sep 2004 21:07)
God save us. Please stop dissecting films. Please stop over-analysing them. God save us.
>>By quiet-kid (Friday, 17 Sep 2004 03:34)
hmmm....... seems like everyone has an opinion............. and they are all using them to discuss this film........... has anyone actually read all the posts here?......... will anyone read this?....... 26 pages is way more than enough for any film.......... i don't really have anything new to add to this discussion and before you think you do, maybe you should read the current posts...... it's probably been said already......... hell this may have been said too, but i didn't read the posts (and i have no intention to do it now)
hmm........... guess i'll just kinda fade out now.................................
>>By kurn-ell (Friday, 17 Sep 2004 03:40)
it's an exceptional movie,i love it!
i won't try to analyse it now,i am not sure what is my interpretation yet...:)but i love all the other posts here.not that i've read them all,of course...but there are some pretty interesting opinions!
>>By Eli_Molko (Friday, 17 Sep 2004 17:41)
After reading some 5 million post on this topic, I'm come to a final decision:
I shall have a child with kurn-ell and name her, "Cellar Door".
>>By CherryBombshell (Friday, 17 Sep 2004 22:03)
aaaaaahaha,sounds great!
"Cellar Door-go to your room-you're grounded!"
>>By Eli_Molko (Saturday, 18 Sep 2004 02:48)
To all who don't mind overanalyzing--
a lot of the confusion seems to come from how the rip in the fabric of time was created. some people seem to believe that the 4th dimension became unstable BECAUSE donnie woke up and was not killed by the jet engine. by cheating his destiny, somehow this caused the rip in the fabric of time and the offshoot of the tangent universe. this helps to explain why, by going back in time and allowing the engine to fall on himself, donnie would be preventing the tangent universe from occuring and therebye saving the world. but this jet engine falling was obviously not a normal, explainable occurence. something had already happened, a rip, a spontaeous portal or something to allow the jet engine to fall, which signified the beginning of the tangent universe.
by believing that the tangent universe was created because donnie cheated his destiny, we create all kinds of problems. for example, in that case, the only reason the tangent universe would exist is because frank woke up donnie. he could have just let him sleep, die and then none of the horrible events would have happened. or the fact that frank as the manipulated dead would not even exist until he contacted donnie and set the events in motion for his own death. it is my opinion that donnie cheating his destiny had nothing to do with the creation of the tangent universe--either way it would have happened, and so frank HAD to wake donnie up so that he as the living receiver could save the world.
so the 4th dimension became unstable, because of an unknown reason-it just does occasionally like in the instance of the mayan arrowhead or medeival sword. at that instant, the events of the future changed and the world is now a dangerous and unstable tangent universe. in 28 days...the world would collapse upon itself if someone did not send the artifact back and repair the rip in the fabric of time. as donnie was at the center of this new universe (being right where the portal, or rip was created) was the living receiver-the one destined to set things right. frank saves donnie, guiding him through a series of events (including frank's own death, which was what allowed frank to travel back through time as the manipulated dead to contact donnie thru the water construct) that would lead him to the ultimate choice. would he sacrifice himself that another might live? frank accomplished this by causing gretchen to die, donnie's true love. in his pain donnie finally understood everything and realized what he had to do to save gretchen and the world for that matter. that's why he was smiling right before he died at the end. he finally figured out the horrible puzzle and knew how the save gretchen and the rest of the world. and perhaps, he could also "look forward with joy" in expectation of what was to come after his death.
i realize i could be off here, but this is what makes the most sense to me.
>>By jkwest (Saturday, 18 Sep 2004 22:47)
I've only read a dozen pages of this wonderful insanity. I also just saw the Directors cut in the cinema.
I do love the theories in here...I have one of my own.
Everyone seems to have accepted that Donnie has powers. Agreed. Also, Frank obviously has powers; he can open a portal (in the cinema, to show donnie). Franks father was called Frank, and his father before him. Firstly, is it possible that all of the manipulated dead in the past have been called Frank? Also, is frank just a victim of Gods intention to make the universe right, or was the capability for powers already within him? (I'm getting to a point here)
Now, Donnie KNOWS he's going to die I'm sure, but he still says he has a lot to look forward to. Is it possible he's happy because he's going to become like frank? or possibly become part of the 4th dimension, or gain the ability to drift through time?
I've also considered the possibility that he laughs because in the Original dimension, he actually IS skitzo, and is laughing out of sheer stupid delight at his strange dream? I know this theory gives him a lot less credit for his actions.
Oh well. at 26 pages, maybe this horse has had enough flogging! Needless to say, I love the film, and everything about it.
>>By Overture (Sunday, 19 Sep 2004 08:59)
having a kid named cellar door huh?.......... well at least you don't want to call him/her donnie
................. :0)
>>By kurn-ell (Tuesday, 21 Sep 2004 02:39)
this movie is so brilliant beacuse it could mean so many different things. Time travel, the fourth dimention, dreams and preseption, reality, ulternite universes, GOD, ones view of this fucked up existance. all rapped up in one. brilliant. it changed me because i see the world in a different way then everyone. there is a greater meaning to everything. i wish i could find someone out there who doesn't just stumble through this life thinking everything is under control .its not. look at the signs and read between the lines. someone is trying to tell you something every day.....please someone, if you fell the way i fell about how fucked up this existance is and if you think this is like the matrix..............talk to me please.
>>By #3loserwithpride (Friday, 1 Oct 2004 06:42)
i am dating a paranoid scitzfphrenic. he's deslexic. i met him in a fucked up way. if a series of events would not have happened...i would not hav met my soul mate. I LOVE Randy Hammilton. he reminds me of Donnie Darko. He even has really dark messed up hair. he dropped out in gr 8. he went to a mental hospital for a year and has to get an injection every two weeks so he doesn't scitz out. he also is on a wack load of drugs and is very dopped up like Donnie.
and he seems to have a very good intuition. like me. He sais we are like Adam and eve and we were ment to be together. pretty trippy.
>>By #3loserwithpride (Friday, 1 Oct 2004 06:48)
sometimes i feel like a messanger of God. (like Donnie Darko :-) really though.i know when somethings going to happen.
>>By #3loserwithpride (Friday, 1 Oct 2004 06:50)
As people keep saying, there is a hell of a lot to read here. So why not discuss the Director's Cut? I'm really interested to know what people think of what the film (and moreover the commentary) seems to infer - it is the human race who are the puppeteers in all of this, albeit in the distant, distant future. I'm not sure I agree with this, I kinda liked it when it could be whoever you want it to be (God, aliens etc.) But the added 'eye download' scenes and Richard Kelly's comments clearly imply that it is none other than our future selves controlling the events in the film. Thoughts?
>>By -Ronald- (Saturday, 9 Oct 2004 22:33)
Ok hi all i havent read all of the posts but ive read most of them sorry if youve already answered my questions or if something i say has already bin said but yeah
I've only seen the movie once and im sure there are things i didnt pick up but everytime i go to get the dvd its not there yeah newayz
In chapter 12 of the philosophy of time travel titled ‘dreams’ its talks of a medievil knight getting impaled on a sword he had not built yet, this doesn’t work because he would have had to survive to make the sword that killed him otherwise he wouldn’t have died, it is from the future but if someone or something goes to the past it or they cant change anything otherwise it changes the future hence it killed him so it should have vanished, disappeared etc and he would still be alive, and how did they know that he was going to make the sword if he was dead? And if Roberta Sparrow was a living receiver why didn’t she die? All of the other living receivers died.
thats all i think keep postin plz
>>By The Blonde One In Pink (Sunday, 24 Oct 2004 09:53)
Oh yeah also I've seen people ask why did Donnie kill frank? It's obviouds(sorry if this answer has bin answered) Frank is a manipulated dead, he cant be a manipulated dead if hes not dead.
>>By The Blonde One In Pink (Sunday, 24 Oct 2004 09:56)
this movie is great. pure genius! i love it so much. and the song "mad world" is awesome.
my boyfriend looks like donnie (jake gyllenhaal) in fact. with the way they both stare its crazy.
>>By Knoxville grl (Sunday, 31 Oct 2004 21:13)
The movie was really really strange - so I went online to try and understand it and I came across this website www.lastwizards.com hacked by the blue buny. The rant sounded real - like the person actually believes we're living in a tangent universe? And something about George W. Bush isn't really our President - it's only this way in the tangent universe. Donnie Darko - the blue bunny explains - is meant to be "paid close attention too" like some movie or book called VALIS? I've never heard of this movie or the band Mother Goose?
The oddest thing was the image of Frank from Donnie Darko and the Egyption God Anu. They really do look like the same creature - and the links took you too some "Illuminati" site that explains how this Frank-look-alike is some extra-dimensional entity that has kept certain Masonic rulers in power via secret societies through the millenia.
I told my boyfriend that this was the craziest thing I ever read and then he said that in Bush's inaugeration he swore his oath on an old Masonic Bible, and Frank sure looked extra-dimensional.
Finally - the blue bunny hacker says that our world is going to end in the singularity of a black hole - a "technological singularity" to be exact. I checked this out - you will not believe it! The technological singularity is near! The world's scientists are super concerned! There are thousands of scientific types talking about it - even a conference this week on it at Stanford! Some of these scientisits really do think that the world will end in this black hole technological singularity thing - it's pretty frightening. Check out http://www.singularitywatch.com or http://www.KurzweilAI.net or maybe the hacked site I read all this on is still hacked http://www.lastwizards.com
Well now I'm even more confused about the movie - Donnie sure was right - things aren't simple or black and white!
>>By Rachel Beatrice (Tuesday, 2 Nov 2004 12:28)
Wow, this discussion group rocks! All your views are amazing...
Anyway, there are some things that I'd like to share with you guys - I've only watched the movie and tried to explore the website (and failed) and have not seen the additional scenes....
Here are my random thoughts:
Maybe the reason why Donnie's mother is not crying is because she has suffered long enough... Even though it was in the Tangent Universe that she talked to Dr Thurman about more medication (and she was teary) she obviously did not want this for her son. So, Donnie's death, as she saw it, brought about the end of her son's suffering.
Highlander III suggests that all of the movie was a dream - and that the real ending was actually the beginning of the movie when we see Donnie waking up in the middle of the road. --- I'd like to think that Donnie did die - otherwise, the whole idea of loneliness and being alone is pointless.
However, I don't disagree with it either - since the movie plays with the idea of time travel and time itself, it could be just that. So it doesn't seem all that absurd if Donnie dreamed about the whole thing.
Let me know what you guys think, feel free to ask questions or share your views.
>>By Compos Mentis (Monday, 15 Nov 2004 15:53)
sweet holy jeeezzuuss guys, I love this movie, easily my favorite, but wow. I had no idea that there was this much stuff on it. All that deep thinking aside, I love the "smurf discussion".
>>By isaacbrockthelostprophet (Tuesday, 16 Nov 2004 04:39)
The discussion board is currently closed.
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