Donnie Darko
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seriously. i think he is laughing because he is facing death. gretchen mentions something like it being cool to change all the bad moments into one good moment or something. donnie liked the thought of death more than the death of gretchen. i think donnie mentions death is good(first word i could think of) so i think he chose one good moment(death) instead of bad moments(gretchen's death)
cherita is wearing ear muffs cuz she doesn't want to hear anything plus always saying chut up. when donnie tells her that it'll be better or something she runs away cuz she thiks that that's never gonna be true. or something.
i think the teachers have a bigger part. i think they are like watchers. they say heh donnie darko eh because they know donnie is the saviour of the universe and they think that he's a very unlikely hero. the science teacher says he can't continue with risk of being fired by god. he was there to help donnie figure out his path but couldn't reveal too much because donnie had to learn on his own as well.
frank is an angel from the future in the tangent thingy and he's like a guardian angel for donnie.
i think the dream theory is possible. it makes us think that maybe all our dreams are of us in tangent universes. kinda creepy. also explains deja vu.
bleh i had more theories but i just went blank. i've just read 8 pages of theories and i think i'm gonna turn into a paranoid schizophrenic myself.
>>By muffin (Sunday, 23 Mar 2003 14:50)
You got some of it, well in terms of what i think the sort-of consensus here is.
The death, your theory as good as mine, I don't think we can ever know.
I agree with the teachers, except I think maybe it's less of a watcher thing than it is the thing in Philosophy of time travel on the official website. Go check it out with respect to the manipulated living. As for geting fired by god, i think you're right.
Churita is more of a no hope situation than an ignorance one i think. look at it from that angle tell me what you think.
Frank, again, go look at the official website, i think that's a better explanation.
Cheers.
>>By Subtillus (Sunday, 23 Mar 2003 20:45)
Heya again guys.
I'll reiterate. I do think that the teachers knew more about the situation than we were lead to believe. The whole "Donnie Darko, heh" "I know...." blurb between the teachers never sat right with me. At the end of the movie, they were the only two who weren't upset by the whole thing after Donnie was killed. (She was the only one still asleep, he was just lying there with a slight smile on his face.)
According to the website, he was killed when he was run off the road by a 'mysterious black car', which is also kind of odd. She tipped him off with the 'cellar door' hint.
The one thing that got me was the fact that he just happened to have a copy of 'The Philosophy of Time Travel' on him when Donnie came to visit. Even if you discount the oddity of this, he has obviously already read it, and by the questions that Donnie asked him, he knew that Donnie was the living receiver.
I sure would like to have a little conversation with the writer on this one.
>>By Bishop (Sunday, 23 Mar 2003 21:13)
Donnie laughs 'cos he knows that Dukakis will lose and america will plunge into moral chaos thanks to Bush Snr and his retarded little son.
>>By the curious orange (Monday, 24 Mar 2003 16:04)
donnie laughs in the face of adversity, its a human trait that you often see when you cant do anything about a situation. example analogy: you go to the lunch room and all that is left is egg sandwiches, and you hate egg sandwiches, so you laugh.
In donnies case he has just saved the world and realizes he is going to die in a few moments and there is nothing he can do about it.
laughing in the face of adversity is a similar human reaction to crying when you are really happy.
i cant believe you guys didnt figure that one out.
mazda
>>By mazda (Tuesday, 25 Mar 2003 02:59)
I don't really agree with that theory mazda. if he wanted to change his fate, he had plenty of time to get out of bed and move away from the huge engine that would fall through his roof.
>>By Alora (Tuesday, 25 Mar 2003 05:21)
the whole thing about people in the primary universe remembering the tangent universe as in a dream, maybe primary universe donnie was laughing because he thought he had the most stupidest dream? of a 6 foot bunny rabbit and the world ending etc.
>>By muffin (Tuesday, 25 Mar 2003 13:22)
if u want this movie thers a perfect coppy on kazaa at the moment :)
>>By Brookes (Tuesday, 25 Mar 2003 21:09)
alora,
trust me, he has to die otherwise the universe would not allign correctly. that is his fate, but he is choosing it. its a catch 22, hes already made the decision to save the world. hes laughing becasue the situation he is in is such a fucker. theres nothing else he can do if he wants to save the world and he is laughing at that. its not because he thought it was a dream. fuck me.
i know the director says differently on the dvd, but did you guys stop to think whether he is fucking with you as well? he's laying out the easy/no loose ends version so people don't go, 'what the fuck was that all about'. this movie goes much deeper that he lets on in the dvd commentary. by the way, did anyone else get the shits with the main actor talking shit all the way through the commentary. he sounds like a coked up wanker.
brookes,
or you could support your local video store and rent if for $1.50 as well as saving your bandwidth.
mazda
>>By mazda (Thursday, 27 Mar 2003 06:14)
Just a quick question: Why is Gretchen listed as a Manipulated Dead (equal with Frank)? It seems to me that she manipulates Donnie to assist in repairing the rift (although in a sneaky, subconcious manner as opposed to Frank's forthright confrontation), but she doesn't display Frank's foreknowledge.
Am I missing something here? Frank guides Donnie using knowledge 'from the future' but Gretchen appears oblivious.
Thanks,
>>By orphex (Thursday, 27 Mar 2003 08:32)
Orphex,
The "manipulated dead thing" doesn't predicae any knowledge from the future, it just means she'll have a lot more influence on his actions than a manipulated living.
Mazda,
My local video store charges 4.50$ per rental, I can hardly afford to live as it is, downloading works just as well and I get to watch as many times as I want.
>>By Subtillus (Friday, 28 Mar 2003 02:47)
Subtillus,
frank does have the ability to time travel. as does gretchen.
Orphex,
i think gretchens role is not as prominent as franks becasue she plays a different role to frank. she is there to influence donnie into thinking a certain way when when he figuring things out, asking him questions so he will figure it out. ie, all the chats they have about death / timetravel / telling him to calm down and chill out. etc. becasue donnies reaction to what gretchen says are more subtle it is hard to pick up on. another thing is that she finds him as frank does. all the others in the movie are regular people in his life. watch the movie again with this in mind and you will notice the difference. she is playing him.
you do see elements of frank and gretchen working together. ie, at the cinema. even if donnie is not aware that gretchen knows frank is there.
Alora,
another note on donnie dying.
all the following clues through the movie would be pointless if he didnt have to die. -->
*donnies mother being so understanding at the end of the movie, she knew donnie had to die, if he could have saved the world and then got out of the way dont you think she would have been a little more upset.
*the last temptation of christ &donnie telling the fat chick with the ear muffs that one day everything will be ok. this plays on the undercurrent of religion in this movie, where donnie plays the role of jesus dieing for everyones sins.
*donnie says he doesnt want to die alone. implying he has to die for everyone else. if he doesnt die from the accident then the universe will collapse on itself leaving only him in the parallel universe, hense dying alone.
mazda
>>By mazda (Friday, 28 Mar 2003 04:49)
i'm lost. i don't get how gretchen shows donnie the future and crap. i need to watch it again. how exactly does gretchen lead him?
>>By muffin (Friday, 28 Mar 2003 13:14)
Mazda,
Word. Good analysis, we're finally getting this movie down I think.
Now for the tricky part, now that we have the plot mechanics worked out, what does it all mean, and what can we take from it. I'll be back in the near future with some thoughts, for now it's term paper time.
>>By subtillus (Saturday, 29 Mar 2003 04:05)
I just finished this movie about four hours ago. Slagged through the website, read the groups, and watched the deleted scenes.
While I'm irritated that I had to do this much detective work to understand the movie, it's been interesting.
I've got my noggin wrapped pretty well around the paradoxical issues and the roles of Gretchen and Frank. I would like to submit a small, partial theory regarding the cause of the 4th dimension rift and the role of God, and it's predicated on the movie's reality that God, indeed, can create an imperfect universe, or multi-verse, if you will. Logic would dictate that a continuum with imperfect beings would require an imperfect continuum - if it were perfect, there would be no entropy.
Because of this, it is both safe and comfortable to assume that God has to work within his/her/pick-your-pronoun own rule set to prevent the imperfections from getting any worse. So, in case of 4th dimensional rift, break glass, manipulate dead and invoke living receiver. A sort of macrophysical disaster recovery plan.
Only the posts on this site would have led me to these conclusions...thank you for the lively discussion. I do not feel nearly as stupid as I did four hours ago.
>>By Team Billy (Saturday, 29 Mar 2003 10:23)
kakak new favourite movie
kinda sad, i want donnie to be alive and have babies with gretchen :|
>>By samblow (Sunday, 30 Mar 2003 13:19)
Hey,
I just saw Donnie Darko since i am from the UK and my Film Studies teacher managed to somehow snag a DVD of it off the net, thanks to him i have just seen one of the most amazing films ever. This film is suppringly one of the most thought provoking films i have seen to date and that is saying something and its style and content is equal to that of any Hollywood film or Films from any other country. The Narrative is well thought out, Frank is just cool and it is such a meaningful tale based around a paradox.
I think its fantastic, that is what a film should really be like.
>>By Gildeth (Tuesday, 1 Apr 2003 03:09)
Hey this is my whole view on it all,
Yes he is laughing at the end because he is facing death but i see it more at the fact of the irony behind the situation, Frank told him at the start of the film the world was going to end and now he ends up where he started and his whole world is going to end. I am not saying this is the whole reason behind it perhaps he is laughing for many reasons perhaps he is laughing because after all this he knows he isnt crazy and that he actualy made something go back in time. I felt the music on this final sequence was just perfect Mad world the song was and just ended the film perfectly with a line of new hope and yet still that underline of sorrow as we have identified with the hero (Donni Darko) and you sit back and watch as Gretchen will never know him.
>>By Gildeth (Tuesday, 1 Apr 2003 03:16)
I think you all have some good ideas... but what was the point of Drew Barrymore's character?
I have been on the website cos you guys were talking about it. It is pretty weird and irrelevant to the movies. but maybe I am missing something? does it really end after the transcript of the telephone conversation?
a very good movie that makes you think, but just enjoy it for what it is giys, don't read into it too much or you might end up disappointed...
>>By hmm... (Tuesday, 1 Apr 2003 07:30)
I dont think i could be disappointed, ive read into it because i want to be a film director and i have been taught in my Film class to do such and read into it. Its a good film to read into but its also a good film to just enjoy for what it is. I just think its a very good film all round. I dont think i could be disappointed with it because its just too damn good. heh i am obviously a fan and the point of the teacher i think probably is just there for part of the nice teacher and bad teacher contrast, she is the contravershal one who makes the kids think and she is also just another problem for Donnie to cure with his death because if he had died he would have never have burst the water mains in the school which in turn would have never led to the books being blaimed and then her for teacher in resulting in job loss. I think she also has a bigger role in the film than is looked at she is there as a catalyst for so much of what goes on in the film, she is the one who brings Donni and Gretchen together, and their relationship leads to Gretchens death at the end which brings Donni to end his life to save her. There is far more to the teacher than people first think in the film. Heh talk about me reading too much into this but i think i may be on to something here.
>>By Gildeth (Tuesday, 1 Apr 2003 20:03)
hmm,
The website is a key to the movie, it offers a look into the philosophy of time travel in level one, which in effect, let's you understand the basic mechanics of the plot. Or, because you didn't get it on the website, I could simplify it by saying, the website let's you get what's happening, once you understand what's happening, you can start to understand what the movie maker is trying to say. I don't have that answer, though, I think it has a lot to do with the nature of free will and fatalism.
Either way, the movie is a piece of art and not reading into it is not appreciating it and not respecting it. If you don't get it, it's ok, most of us don't, but at least make the effort if you're coming to this forum.
Gildeth,
You're on to a few things there, but I'm going to stick with what's been previously said in this forum about the teachers, read the back entries, there's a few good ones.Gretchen, Frank and to a lesser extent, the teachers and his therapistetc.. played donnie like a flute. The question is, why? Who made them? Then the more interesting question is, why did he do it? then the even better question is what is the director trying to tell anyone else who's watching?
-Sub
>>By Subtillus (Wednesday, 2 Apr 2003 01:53)
I wasn't arguing the fact that donnie had to die in order to save everyone. I was saying it was still his choice even at the end.
>>By Alora (Wednesday, 2 Apr 2003 05:06)
Hi..watched the movie 2wice...I really think it's kinda like a memento... u make the most of it with what your given.. but one thing no one has mentioned is the fact that Donnie saved grandma death's life..remember when His father almost hit her with the car but Donnie warns him.... I just dont get one thing.. What happens to the Donnie that is on the edge of the cliff with his dead girlfriend. How does he get back to his room in time for the engine to land in his room...2nd question.. Y didn't Frank just leave donnie in bed to avoid this big-ass mess. If Donnie would have died the 1st time the 4th dimension and the tangent bullshit would all be hand-in-hand and we can all sing "So happy 2gether".
>>By Elektro-808 (Wednesday, 2 Apr 2003 08:59)
Elektro, go back and read some of the earllier posts, I know theres a lot of them and they tend to contradict each other but if you start on page one and work through I think most of your questions will be answered. The bit about Donnie on the cliff, the engine went back in time, Donnie didnt go anywhere. By Donnie dying in his bed the tangent universe doesnt exist. I'm probably wrong by the way! Also I THINK that the tangent universe isnt created by Donnie not dying, its created by the engine going back in time.
>>By Jay (Wednesday, 2 Apr 2003 17:42)
I know my comments may have just been opinions from the top of my head because that is what they were, i have not looking into this film in class and i have only seen it once all i know is that i loved the film and using my knowledge i had to at least come to a forum like this and see what was being said.
Just a question, do you really need to use the website to understand the film i think that if you just watch it and read it like we should be able to then you should be able to gather what is trying to be said.
If you could explain your theory about playing donnie like a flute i would be interested to hear it. Most of all about films i and anything that interests me i am not pretentious and am eager to learn heh
>>By Gildeth (Wednesday, 2 Apr 2003 21:28)
The one question I have left, is what is the point of the Smurfs conversation in the movie? It is merely there to help bring in teen audiences, or does it serve a little more meaningful purpose I am missing?
>>By Wallaby (Thursday, 3 Apr 2003 05:50)
1) The story of the Smurf's parallels Gretchen's entry in the film - the girl Smurf being put into the Smurf's town to cause havoc but end's up seeing the good and staying - Could be that if Frank was sent by God then Gretchen by "Satan" or whoever to destroy the Universe, which would have happened if Gretchen had not fallen for Donnie as he would not have shot Frank for running her over.....After the two "thugs" in the film harass her Donnie kind of rescues her thus she see's "good".
2) The engine is not from the normal universe but the parallel one - if you read and listen to the transcript the guy in London says the engine is "an exact replica" of one on a plane already in use and that this plane had not lost an engine but was in service until 1994 - the engine had fallen through the rupture in the 4th dimension.
>>By pappa smurf (Friday, 4 Apr 2003 03:55)
If someone else has already stated this, I apologize.. but I was thinking about the purpose of the teacher's, and thier brief comment on Donnie Darko. I propose that the teachers are smart, and a bit more in touch with reality than the others at the school, or maybe even more so than humans in general.
So, they sense the world has gone astray, and having read the Time Travel, they realize that time was ruptured, and that Donnie Darko is the reciever. So, they laugh and comment in amusement because it seems ironic that the rebellious Donnie Darko they know from school is the one to set the universe strait.. Just a thought. I maybe change my mind when I get to see the movie for a second time..and the deleted scenes and such.
>>By wallaby (Friday, 4 Apr 2003 14:42)
Further to my comments above:
The two "thugs" - I think they're in the film to prevent Donnie from saving the Universe - I also think Gretchen was there for the same purpose (see above) - When we first see all 3 together they are teasing her but when she walks off with Donnie she turns and waves at them - After she falls for him then it's up to both of them to stop him hence they are at Granma Death's house at the end.......
>>By Pappa Smurf (Friday, 4 Apr 2003 19:42)
Uhm.. Gretchen doesn't 'wave' to the two 'thugs', she gives them the middle finger (fuck).
>>By an act of God (Friday, 4 Apr 2003 23:38)
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