Donnie Darko
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Anyone who's read all these posts should basically understand all that parallel/tangent/primary universe crap. I don't see any more need to bring that up really.
"The question is, why? Who made them? Then the more interesting question is, why did he do it? then the even better question is what is the director trying to tell anyone else who's watching?"
-Subtillus
I believe that the real meaning of the movie must be realized by analyzing all the very subtle aspects seen throughout the movie. No one here has really analyzed any of the characters in the movie as actual people with emotions and feelings. That is the heart and soul of this movie and any other good movie; it makes us interested in Donnie Darko.
I got something interesting out of the movie that no one else here has thought about. I believe the movie is about love, and what the definition of love is - what it really means to love someone. Contrary to what papa surf said, Frank is sent by an evil power (Chaos) and Gretchen by the better power (Organization). Frank is a time-traveler, created by an act of some chaos driven force. Frank's comment in the movie theater (something along the lines of how he has many descendants) gives me the feeling that Donnie has failed to save the universe many, many times in the past, but at the same time did not flat out fail, and thus things went in a never-ending loop for quite sometime.
Consider this, Donnie had to die in order for everything the primary world to be fixed. But Frank came along and woke him up before he was about to die. This could've continued to happen for an indefinite amount of time, because every time Tangential Donnie caused the large engine to fall onto primary Donnie, Frank woke Donnie up and he left the room, thus saving his life temporarily and making primary Donnie into another tangential Donnie. This cycle could continue forever and Primary Donnie would never know any of the thoughts of Tangential Donnie. The Tangential universe would then fall apart again, and the engine would fall back through the worm hole into the primary universe and everything would start again.
What caused this tangential universe to occur in the first place? In order for the engine to fall and kill Donnie, everything in the Tangential universe would have already have had to take place, or would it? I believe Sparrow had something to do with this, she might have inadvertently set off all the troubles when she discovered too much about time travel. She altered the course of destiny because she could "visually" see what would happen (like the physics teacher said one could do if they could see the future). However, she could not see the far-reaching of her effects on the future. The course of events was changed and through some weird quirk, the only way the universe could be saved is if Donnie died on a certain day at an exact time. Remember then, that what we're saying is that the universe has been off its primary course (i.e. it is tangential) since Sparrow did something long ago. Thus, the whole movie operates in a tangent of a tangential universe. The reason for this tangent, however, is to set the old tangential universe back into line with a primary universe, thus causing the tangent universe to become primary in itself. Thus, the first time around, no airplane engine fell into Donnie's room. Sparrow though, she herself sent the engine falling back through time as the tangential universe she created years ago began to disintegrate. Thus, the engine went back to kill Darko. However, the force of chaos sent Frank, who saved Donnie temporarily from death. Thus the cycle began. Frank kept the universe in a perpetual loop. If he could keep Darko or Sparrow from sending back the engine, then perhaps he could even cause the primary universe to be destroyed and accomplish chaos' ultimate goal.
However, Darko was able to always send the engine back. By sending an artifact of the future back through the wormhole as the tangential universe was being destroyed, he was able to effectively start things back over that on the first day of the movie and thus keep things in a loop. So then this is basically a battle between chaos and organization.
However, the primary difference between this story's Donnie and all the other previous, primary turned tangential Donnie's, is that organization sent Gretchen to change the outcome of events and alter Donnie's psyche. Her sudden moving into Donnie's town and life is symbolic of her newness in the loop of events. I don't think she is aware of her part in everything. Someone mentioned earlier that she was awake in the theater when Donny talked to Frank. There doesn't twitch or move once and thus there is no proof of that. Donny falls very strongly in love with Gretchen, it's obvious that he cares about her. He's willing to put off other things in order to be with her. She also helps him to focus his thoughts and not overreact to certain situations. In the end, when she is killed by Frank, it is not actually the Frank sent by chaos, but as we all know, is the "Frank" which is part of the tangential world. However, Darko's shooting of this "Frank" is symbolic of Darko finally destroying the actual Frank who is his enemy. He destroys him out of an act of love, his love for Gretchen. Then, as he sends the engine back into time to destroy himself, he knows that he has finally triumphed.
Primary world Darko now lays in bed and begins to laugh. I believe he now laughs because he knows everything will be all right. In his heart, he is filled with love for Gretchen and also somewhat for his family. Love was the only force that could transpire through time and place and has defeated chaos. Whether Frank tells Darko to leave the room or not, whether he still exists or Donnie has killed him off is unimportant. Donnie has a love in his chest which tells him that he's going to be okay and that everything is fine.
One can find proof for this at the end of the movie. Endings of movies like this are often the most important part of the whole thing. Darko's mother stands outside smoking a cigarette. Gretchen rides by on her bike and looks at the house. Although she says she doesn't know Darko to the boy she talks to. She looks at the mom and instantly feels a connection to her. The mom feels the same connection back. They both share the same love for Darko and can feel their connection. It is interesting that Gretchen waves to Donnie's mom first, almost as if she is thanking mom for the sacrifice, because she knows that she really has caused the loop to end and ultimately bring an end to Darko on this world for good. The mother waves back because she knew what had to be done and understands Gretchen's crucial role to the survival of the universe, but is still full of an accepting sort of grief. Donnie's psychiatrist also wakes up in the middle of the night as Donnie dies, because she too fosters a sort of love for Donnie and really understood him better than anyone.
So that's basically my theory, that the story is really about the strenght of love and how is can always defeat the forces of chaos.
I hope all that made some kind of sense. I know a lot of the things I say are much different than what others here believe, but that's what makes it fun, right?
>>By Getit (Saturday, 5 Apr 2003 14:58)
Donny Darko is beautifully photographed and edited. The acting and direction are right on. Some seem to have a problem with Drew Barrymore, but my opinion is the casting is perfect across the board. The movie is a great cinematic achievement. Special effects are not used gratuitously, and are essential to the story. It is bound to be a classic.
Donny Darko is probably one of the best written films I can remember. However, the story is so pessimistic. The protagonist is so desperately hopeless. Perhaps the world would be a better place if Richard Kelley could be transported through a time portal back to the moment he had the idea for this film and die in an bizarre accident transported back with him from the future that he could have avoided but didn’t because somehow he had the choice to change the future through suicide, but not the option to live his life over in a different, more positive way. Somewhere between a Capra film and this, there must be a more realistic model of reality.
>>By Coyote Roy (Saturday, 5 Apr 2003 18:33)
Good reading getit,
Though, if what you say is true, then the website's philosophy of time travel is false or at least forms an inconsistent set.
Also, the many religious aspects of the movie would be somewhat wated in that reading, what of the man in the red suit? What of the last temptation of christ?
>>By subtillus (Monday, 7 Apr 2003 05:53)
I wish they would make a Darko prequel and have it focused on Roberta Sparrow and the time travel book.
Maybe i missed it in older posts, but i still have questions
about Roberta.
She was born in 1887, became a nun in 1910, & wrote the Philosophy of Time Travel in '44. Immediately afterwards,
she quit the sisterhood & became a high school science
teacher for 33 yrs. The same high school Donnie Darko would attend 11 yrs after she retired.
Is the book a message from God? In the book foreward,
she prays it's just a work of fiction. Is her doubts what lead her to quit the church or was that part of a mission? From being a nun to teaching science- is it a big leap or big loss of faith?
The book claims "No one knows how or why a Receiver will be chosen". Is it just coincidence that Roberta & Donnie live in the same town & attended/worked at the same school, though at different times?
Also in the book she writes "If I am still alive when the events foretold in these pages occur, then I hope that you will find me before it is too late." I wonder why Donnie chose to write to her instead of rushing over to see her.
Perhaps he was manipulated into not visiting Sparrow.
Or maybe he thought Roberta's constant mailbox vigil meant he should write.
Prof. Monnitoff was in college when Sparrow retired. I wonder if he went to the same high school & knew her there or did he gain knowledge of her during his time with the CIA? lol Perhaps both Monnitoff & Pomeroy (Barrymore) were once Sparrow's students and she told them what she knew about the Living Reciever and what
she knew would someday occur.
Was Roberta's role to write the book that would guide the Living Reciever or was she setting other events into motion through the years? Uh, this nosey mind wants to know! :)
>>By rogue (Monday, 7 Apr 2003 23:45)
I have read most of all your posts the thing I still don't understand is what does Donnie do that stops the universe from collapsing? From what I can tell the engine still falls no matter what and the only difference is that Donnie dies and saves a few peoples lives. The engine is still a mystery to the FAA and should still cause the universe to collapse. So it seems to me that the whole Frank thing was a big waste of time. Maybe this was already explained and I just don't understand. If so, Please explain in stupid people terms.
Thanks
>>By laxonite (Tuesday, 8 Apr 2003 03:47)
The engine is just a artifact. It doesn't affect the outcome except by whether it kills Donnie or not. Franks intervention starts the collapse when he tells Donnie to get out of bed the first night. Donnie should have died that night but because he didnt there was an alternate universe created that would only last a few weeks and when it collapsed it would take everything with it.
>>By DBlade (Tuesday, 8 Apr 2003 04:37)
This leads me to another question. Why did Frank start the collapse? For Fun? An off key question : Is "Donnie Darko" a more complex version of "Final Destination"?
>>By laxonite (Tuesday, 8 Apr 2003 07:04)
No the two movies aren't even in the same universe... :P
Several reasons he would start the collapse. He died after everything happened so maybe he knew the Donnie could make a difference. As in change people for the better and maybe he knew he could change donnie as well. I figure that cause he says "I'm so sorry" at the movie theater after donnie asks when it will end. Or it could be to save his own life and break the cycle that would reoccur.
>>By DBlade (Tuesday, 8 Apr 2003 08:29)
Sorry bout that, I didn't really answer the last question.
The only real connection with Final Destination is that they cheated death. In FD they just cheated it and fought to survive, but in DD he cheated it to and end. Donnie never really fought against death but fought to change destiny. Donnie Darko's story is much deeper than just a survival movie.
>>By DBlade (Tuesday, 8 Apr 2003 08:34)
What every comment on this board that I read failed to note is the fact that time and continuity are human constructs. In a wider scope of the scenario Donnie faces all of the events in each dimension could either happen not on a linear scale, but on a spatial one; or each event could take place an infinite number of times on a linear scale. Thus creating infinite loopholes in each dimension until each Donnie accidentally destroys or redeems the integrity of that particular dimension.
>>By DyloniusPhunk (Tuesday, 8 Apr 2003 10:13)
Time and continuity would be natural forces by my way of thinking. Time is time. If it didn't occur everything would happen at once and instantanieously. Continuity is a product of time. We can measure time and things happen in sequence so it is not just a construct of the human mind. It is a real tested force of nature.
>>By DBlade (Tuesday, 8 Apr 2003 10:48)
I do agree that the events could have taken place an infinite number of times. At least till donnie fixed it.
>>By DBlade (Tuesday, 8 Apr 2003 10:49)
DBlade,
Depends what your deff. of time is. Nature sure as hell hasn't followed the clock, it follows it's own natural rythym.
Time isn't linear ;-)
>>By Andrew C (Tuesday, 8 Apr 2003 14:18)
Linear means in a straight line. Time is in a straight line as far as we know. And unless nature is breaking through time/space then it is still happening on a linear plane.
>>By DBlade (Tuesday, 8 Apr 2003 14:49)
Wow, just read through all ten pages. Yeah, I've got a lot of time on my hands...
I noticed something in the movie that no one else here seems to have picked up on. At the end of the movie, when Donnie is being carried out of the house and the camera pans over his family, each member looks as though they are trying not to laugh, in a weird way.
Do you guys think this ties in with Donnie laughing before he gets crushed?
>>By paranoir (Tuesday, 8 Apr 2003 19:02)
IMHO, I think that the current idea of "time" doesn't really represent the reality we live in ;-)
>>By Andrew C (Wednesday, 9 Apr 2003 00:28)
Thanks DBlade you have helped me understanad "Donnie Darko" much more clearly.
Thanks
>>By laxonite (Wednesday, 9 Apr 2003 00:56)
Something I don`t understand is the whole thing about the cellar door and its role in the movie. I now understand better what Roberta Sparrow had to do in the movie after much reading of everyone`s responses. Another thing I don`t understand is the part were the psychiatrist calls Donnie`s house and talks about something urgent, as in she knows something. What exactly does she know and how does she know about it? I`d also like to say that I found this movie to be extraordinary and amazing and I am extremely grateful for all of your responses because it all makes so much more sense now. Its really a complex film and I feel like you already have to have some knowlegde of time travelling theories involving all the universes etc. So this was a great help and I`d like someone to answer my questions if they can.
>>By Missalaneous (Wednesday, 9 Apr 2003 03:34)
Miss,
I will answer to the best of my ability. I am pretty sure that the cellar door just helps Donnie to realize that he needs to go the the cellar door of Robertas house(at the party he looks in the wormhole and hears his teacher say "cellar door". so he feels he should go to the cellar door of her house where Frank gets killed which is very important). The reason the psychiatrist calls is because Donnie admitted to flooding the school and burining down Jims house(it says this in the commentary). Also she might start to believe Donnie because In the deleted scenes you find out that Donnies medication is placebos so the psychiatrist knows that Donnie is not crazy so she may start to suspect something is going on (also in commentary).
hope this helps
>>By laxonite (Wednesday, 9 Apr 2003 08:10)
Watching the ending over and over i get the feeling that Donnie actually went back in time himself and "replaced all the moments of darkness with something better". I mean he was in a metal craft and he could use his power to accelerate. So maybe thats why gretchen was there on the day he died and not on the day he survived. Cause he went back and changed his dark moments and her dark moments.
I could be wrong though.
>>By DBlade (Wednesday, 9 Apr 2003 10:39)
I need to get a hold of that commentary... :D
>>By Then (Thursday, 10 Apr 2003 11:43)
Frank was wearing a halloween costume (Bunny setup) and he killed your one on halloween night while he was driving.Dosent this mess with a lot of these theories?
>>By chuck (Thursday, 10 Apr 2003 15:57)
chuck...can you clarify your question a little more? i don't understand what you're asking.
>>By Alora (Monday, 14 Apr 2003 18:40)
I may have missed this in a previous post, or maybe even the actual film. Does anybody know what the old lady, Grandma Death said to Donnie when when whispered into his ear... He went to tell the shrink but i cant remember him saying what she actualy said, if he did...
>>By TopDog (Tuesday, 15 Apr 2003 05:17)
She says; "Every living creature on Earth dies alone."
>>By laxonite (Tuesday, 15 Apr 2003 08:09)
I said it before, but Frank did not cause the alternate reality. The alternate reality was caused by a tear in the 4th dimension, which is supposed to be a stable construct.
The alternate reality would have happened no matter what. It would have lasted however many days or weeks, then it would have imploded, destroying it and the primary universe together. Donnie was chosen to fix it, and Frank was sent by a 'divine power' to guide him.
>>By Bishop (Tuesday, 15 Apr 2003 19:16)
Thanks i remember that being said now :P, gonna watch the film again now, very very very well written film. How many other films do you know that get this type of stunned response from its veiwers? Also, any more films like this that are definate must see that i have missed?
>>By TopDog (Tuesday, 15 Apr 2003 22:02)
Maybe this is nothing but i noticed that 3 of the characters names are linked to the reactions of the character, eg
Donnie Darko - This name is refered to by Gretchen as the name of a Super Hero, which he doesnt denie.
Roberta Sparrow - From what i have heard once before Sparrows are known for there repetitive movements, Roberta also shows this when waiting for Donnies letter...
Jim Cunningham - Cunningham may link to being cunning and deceiving, in which Jim is as he is seen as an inspiration to many yet he is realy warped.
Any others? thats if mine are correct, just grasping at straws in tryin to figure out this movie :-)
Also so as far i can make out, there was a glitch and the jet engine (artifact) was shifted along one of those paths which donnie can see, the glitch means that the artifact travels back in time and lands away from its destiny, landing in donnies bedroom, now if donnie was in the bedroom at the time it hits things carry on as normal and it isnt the end of the world (for donnie) but Frank intercepts and guides Donnie away from death. Although even if Donnie was to be in the room at the time of the crash, his mother and daughter would still die at a later date as the plane engine would still have fallen off, yes? They just dont know that the engine has came from there plane in the future. So they will still die wether Donnie is in the bedroom or not, although Gretchen will still live. Also this first time we know that Donnie has been in contact with Frank is when he guides him to league his house, as far as we know this is the first time that donnie has met frank... but on the way to school when greeted by his freinds one of them says my dad seen you at the golf course, you been sleep walking again? Donnie always sleepwalk or only when being guides by frank.. becuase on the opening scene of the film we see Donnie awaking from another sleepwalk (or sleep ride as he has his bike with him), has he been guided by frank then aswell? and has his mental problem started when seeing frank of has he had the in the past...
Im confused, you lot have probably mentioned all this in previous posts aswell :D, soz :)
>>By TopDog (Wednesday, 16 Apr 2003 00:09)
donnie's mom won't die in the plane now cause she won't be on there. the only reason she was on the plane is because cunningham was arrested. since he won't be arrested now (no donnie to expose him), his mom won't have to accompany the group.
>>By Alora (Thursday, 17 Apr 2003 04:17)
What Alora said. His sister won't be on the plane either because his mother won't be there to take the red eye home to get back early.
The only thing that bothered me about the mother taking that red eye was, what about the other dancers? Donnie's mother was supposed to be the shaperone for the group, yet she takes the red eye back with just she and her daughter? Maybe the other dancers are on the plane too, but you don't see them in the airport or on the plane. Did she strand them there or what? If not, they would have died on that plane too.
>>By Bishop (Thursday, 17 Apr 2003 21:23)
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