Donnie Darko
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BbZzDd: So if this was a book, the last line would be "And then Donnie woke up and realised it was all a dream."? Come off it.
How you can say you just watched it once and understood is totally beyond me and I can't say I agree with you at all.
For something like the right idea, just go to page 1 and read one of the very first posts by "Jamuraan". For my money, he's as close to being right as you're going to get, but as someone posted earlier, the whole point is that there is no right or wrong answer, just your own interpretation. The director says as much on the commentary sections of the DVD, about how film-makers are too quick to conclude everything and give a definitve answer to films when it would be better to leave it open for discussion.
I saw the film for the first time the other day, after being prompted by the release over here in England of Gary Jules' Mad World.
I have to say it's one of the finest films I've ever seen, so everyone keep loving it and keep those crazy theories coming!
Play Up Pompey
>>By DavieDarko (Thursday, 27 Nov 2003 14:32)
well here is my theory after watching te film and reading teh book excperts form the website, and things that happened in the film
donnie gets sucked into the 4th Dimension after being saved from his destiny, by Frank the redisent giant ugly bunny.
As stated in the book the manipulated living will fear the receiver , and thats why you see donnie getting hassle from the the kid in the toilet, but these manipulated living are also there to help donnie return the artifact, which is why I beielive that he was held to the ground when gretchen was ran over by Frank. since frank had to be shot, or he would not have been killed by donnie and Frank would not have visisted Donnie like he did. also the reason why gretchen could help donnie. Since if Frank had not ran over gretchen then she would not have bene able to come back to help.
Roberta sparrow - she wrote the book, my conclusion is that she is a reciver, and has been able to manipulate time, and seen that donnie would write the letter that he did. hence her behaviour.
The teachers - Well the male teacher was a a nasa scientist, before, so does not beleive in god, he is a scientist, everyone knows that science (ie the dinosaurs) contradict the theory of the of god and his creation of the world. but he did go to school there, and so did drew barrymores charachter. I beleive that they both read roberta sparrows book, and beleived in it. and then as manipulated living, they helped guide donnie is his quest. This is also the reason why the male teacher could have got fired for continuing his theory, because then he would have been speaking against everything the school beileves in. His death later on is destiny, and it would not have happened like that had it not been for donnie saving the world.
the japanese girl - its been touched on already in here, but she fancied donnie. and her ear muffs were to block out the world. she was already alone, and donnie was reasuring her that things would change from the monday, since he knew then that he would be dead.
Gretchen - she was manipulted dead and helped donnie with his quest. She gave him advise on some matters, and put ideas in his head, as part of normal every day conversations. again a guide for him.
The axe in the dog thingy - this was part of donnies supper strength while in the fourth dimension. as the water conjuring was for the school flooding. since that was a shit load of water for a burst mains pipe!
Frank - he guided donnie to flood the school so that he could meet gretchen would was also going to help him. he also apologised in the cinema. At that point you didnt know what for, but it became clear later on.
The plane engine - dead easy. The plane engine was the metal artifact that would return the primary universe. It had to come back, and as explained in the book, these artifacts bring great interest. Hence the secret clauses signed. and the website points out that the engine was an exact replica to the minute hundreth of an inch of a plane that had been flying for six years already and the plane was still in service. another reason for the secrecy.
Rose as the end - the manipulated living, the closer they are to the receiver have better menories once the prmairy universe if returned. so she had a better memory of what happened in the 4th Dimension, and there for realised that what happened was done for a reason. hence the calmness. thats also the reason why gretchen and her had a wee wave at each other, a kind of, I dont know you but I do kind of thing.
Jim cunningham - again a giude in the 4th dimension - he was the person who was trying to contradict everything by making things so simple. and creating a strong responce from donnie. the child porn ring, was I think a true trait in Jim cunningham, and this is the reason that when you visit the site, you find that soon after donnie dies. Jim takes his own life, or what you beleive to be that he took his own life? was he murdered by the porn ring when he dicided to get out of it?
well thats what I think anyway.
>>By Kenster (Saturday, 29 Nov 2003 19:43)
So seeing how everything in the story has a purpose, what is the purpose of the fat guy in the jump suit?
and to an arguement from earlier in the discussion...i dont think monitof dieing has anything to do with the time shift. i think it was just saying how life goes on. Its not like they all would have lived forever if none of it had ever happend.
And people. this is a discussion. there is no need to criticize people's spelling and grammer. Cuz frankly, some of us are just lazy, bad spellers.
>>By atouchoverrated (Saturday, 29 Nov 2003 19:58)
also i just noticed that Maggie (elizabeth darko) and Jake (donnie darko) and real life brother and sister.
>>By atouchoverrated (Saturday, 29 Nov 2003 20:10)
well the fat guy in the suit is there because (again this is what I think) he was there to stop Donnie and Gretchen from realising love too soon.
If you remember they were going to kiss but she didnt want too because the guy was starting at them.
the raelised love after, the first kiss was shared later on and then they made love before they went to Roberta sparrows house.
>>By Kenster (Saturday, 29 Nov 2003 20:44)
After reading the philosophy of time travel and most of these posts, I'm clear on everything except one question that a lot of people seemed to have skipped:
How does Donnie return the artifact to the primary universe?
The answer to this depends on what created the tangent universe? Was it the jet engine falling through time or was it Donnie not being in his bed?
If it's the jet engine falling through time, all Donnie does is send the jet engine back in time again - shouldn't this just create another tangent universe? To send the jet engine back to the primary universe - from the tangent universe - would be to put it back on the plane where it belongs.(?) Donnie doesn't seem to send the jet engine anywhere - i'm pretty sure he just lets it fall through the time portal.
I'm beginning to get the feeling that Donnie is the artifact (even though he's not made of metal). Donnie needs to send himself back in time, return himself to the primary universe, in order to prevent the tangent universe from occuring.
This makes sense because everyone does treat Donny as an object of great curiosity. I think the website intentionally mislead us into thinking that the jet engine was the artifact.
>>By mroth001 (Saturday, 29 Nov 2003 23:23)
mroth001
he didnt send it back in time. he sent it from the tangent universe into the Primary universe. and donnie cant be the artifact, because an artifact has to be metal (I know you touched on that)
>>By Kenster (Monday, 1 Dec 2003 14:30)
Donnie darko is a movie that can only be described as a clash of theories that either work all together or in totally seperate ways. One such theory is that Donnie darko is in some futuristic way, a telling of the christs sacrafice.....as if the two opposing elements religion and science are in fact harmonious. Yea this theory is out there but bare with me as i try to explain some of the supporting evidence. Biblically speaking Jesus Christ new ahead of time that he would have to serve as a sacrafice for mankind. he would die so that the world could have some peace ( even though not entirely) until his second coming at the end of the world. This movie somehow takes this science notion of time travel and applies it to this christ idea, as if christ could see the devastation that mankind would face if he overted his determined timeline that ends in his death. Donnie darko is spoken to by a Frank the bunny and given a chance to see what would happen if he was still alive, a teacher loses her job, gretchen and frank die, Jim cunningham commits suicide. Donnie is given this chance to see the parallel time line and then travels back and remains in his room, happy to serve as a martyr and shed a little peace on the town of middlesex until the end of the world. such evidence that supports this theory would be the movie playing in the movie theater " the last temptation of christ", the cut scenes show frank the bunny saying " god loves his children and god loves you" to donnie, as well as the therapists notions on searching for God. in some twisted view the facts do support such a theory but then again this movie leaves alot to be unanswered and analyzed its an excellent movie to stir some critical thinking.
>>By Joster (Friday, 5 Dec 2003 22:23)
time
>>By seth13 (Sunday, 7 Dec 2003 00:59)
This film has totally changed the way i think about cinema, i've only seen it once (two nights ago) but in that short time i've found myself constantly thinking about the questions it posed to me. and to ME is the point, just as when you wathced it the questions it posed would no doubt have been differnt to mine. The biblical subtext is so amazinly interwovan into einstein's theory of relativity that i'm still wondering, is it about god, is it quantum physics, i think the answer is niether or both, or maybe its a comment on how the world is spit by these two theorys, i.e bible/science. the best thing about this film is how it questions them both, what a masterpiece. P.S god as a satanic image, genius, that had me right till the end.
>>By hecticecletic (Monday, 8 Dec 2003 19:16)
Loved the movie
>>By lil (Tuesday, 9 Dec 2003 16:27)
Well, I watched this film last night after months of forgetting to rent it after both family members and friends recommended it to me. I'm disappointed in myself for not RUNNING to the movie store to rent it when it was first told about it. An excellent film to say the least and definitely one of the best films I have ever seen.
I've read through all of the posts (for some of you, boy I thought I was long winded) over the last two days (after watching the film and today). I must say that the posts on this board and the insights that you folks have brought to the discussion are a true testament to the genius of the film. I also read what some of the critics said about the film and this only reafirms my belief that unless there is a general consensus, these are the last people who should shape your viewing habits.
Moreover, I also think that you guys read WAY too into this film. Which again is a testament to the genius because it was obvious that author/director intended for you to do so based on the fact that he (or someone close to the film) added all this additional material (i.e. parallel timelines, additional text from the fictious book and the fake news pages from the website). On top of the fact that the author bolted lots and lots of religious symbolism/icons into donnie's dream (or daydream for that matter). So now I'll give you my 2 cents on my initial reaction to the film (before reading anything on this site, the website, critics comments, etc. etc.) and then an additional comment about the Chen character.
I simply thought the story was about a very troubled youth ( or yoot for you My Cousin Vinny fans) who was either a) lying awake in bed daydreaming about how he wanted his life to be like or b) sleeping and having what is commonly called a 'lucid dream' (A dream in which you know your dreaming and effect/change the outcome of the dream). Waking up and finding that what had happened in the dream is ridiculous (hence the laugh at the end) and then being the unfortunate victim of a freak accident. Everything else in the film is purely a fabrication of the protagonist. So make of that material what you will. The wave at the end of the film between the girlfriend and the mother is simply there for you to doubt the outcome or question the relevence of the events of the film. I believe the comments by Austin several pages back somewhat echo my remarks.
Now for some religious speculation into the Chen character (Again this is pure speculation, which has not all ready been posted. Take from it what you will). Chen symbolizes the disaffected population from God's will. I'm not by any means a reglious man, but I thought in order to be saved you must accept God into your heart (i.e. love God) in order to be accepted into his kingdom. Hence J.C. was a manifestation of God and the revelation of Chen's crush on Donnie at the end was her acceptance of God. For that Jesus (Donnie) bore our (her) sins and made the utlimate sacriface. Thus the removal of her earmuffs which Donnie wore in the following scene.
I think all the other symbolism in the film has been quite thoughly covered in previous posts. In any case, great film and I really enjoyed reading all of your comments. Take care.
>>By Interesting (Monday, 15 Dec 2003 08:56)
I was just wondering does anybody know if There is A Donnie Darko soundtrack? I know Gary Jules single Mad World is out now and it says on the inlay card that says the song is also featured on the soundtrack but i've looked in loads of shops and cant find it anywhere!
Also i would just like to say this film is one of my all time favourites! Besides the witty script and excellent cast i think the cinematography is amazing and still can hardly believe the movie was made with a mere budget of £4million! I would go into my own interpretation of the movie but to be honest i'm still making my mind up on that matter. Another thing i love about this movie it forces u to think & come up with your own conclusons.
>>By Too Smart for a nickname (Monday, 15 Dec 2003 20:30)
Any geeky scientific details about time travel that this movie may or may not be refferring to are not important. This isn't a movie about time travel. It's a movie about upper middle class suburban America, and its flawed values as seen through the eyes of a troubled but increadibly intuitive teenager. The whole time travel concept is simply a way for the director to convey his message. Don't get too carried away with your theories and appreciate the film for what it is!
>>By tom199 (Saturday, 20 Dec 2003 02:35)
Hey Too Smart - Good Decision.
Try this baby - for a tenner too - http://www.play.com/ play247.asp?page=title&r= CDJ&title=116672 but delete the spaces, it wont let me put the full URL.
>>By SenCee (Saturday, 20 Dec 2003 04:30)
Hey thur!
OMG this film was like SOOOOOO :S!! i never shut up but in tis fuckin film i did! heehee!
Wot sum o u peeps( THNAK U SO MUCH) av sed has reali helped! how th fuck u wrk out that frank is her bf?? plz msg me n help me cheers xxxx
OMG i av 2 say how fuckin fit is Donnie darco!! I AM IN LUV! :P
>>By Hixxy (Tuesday, 30 Dec 2003 04:02)
I haven't read all of these posts, but no one seems to have picked up on one point. Perhaps it's just blindingly obvious, but I'll mention it anyway. When Donnie chooses to go back in time, and alter history, he doesn't just save Gretchen and Frank's life, he saves his mother and sister as well. The plane that the engine falls off of is the plane that his mother and sister are on coming back from the dance contest. They had got an earlier flight to the one that the Sparkle Motion dance troupe would have been on because they didn't want to leave Donnie alone for too long. His mother only went because the teacher who would have taken them was organising Jim Cunninghams legel defence.
And if he hadn't flooded out the school then his English teachers choice of reading material wouldn't have been highlighted in the PTA meeting, so Drew Barrymore wouldn't ave been fired. So his continued existence was destroying everyones lives. The major problem with this film, and ascribing meaning to it, is that it is centered round a paradox. Because cause and effect are running in a loop, so that sometimes the effect predates the cause, and instigates it's own cause, then we don't really have the vocabulary to explain what is happening. I feel that the film can only be understood intuitively, and talk of tangent universes or bibliical paralells are just an attempt to construct a framework within which to communicate our own inuited comprehension.
Or maybe it's just an odd, brilliant little film.
>>By Dibs (Tuesday, 30 Dec 2003 12:25)
im still fuckin :S! plz help me! msg me im hixxy!
>>By Hixxy (Tuesday, 30 Dec 2003 16:17)
Just watched it for the first time and it does make sense strangly, but what i want to know is chen just suffering from exclusive hearing cos she was bullied such a lot? that would explain why when donny tellher things will be better for her she just repeats the only word we ever hear her say bar the singing and its shut up and runs off does she automatically expect him to make fun of her even tho at the bus stop ater he likes up a fag the others are teasing her and tell them to leave her alone?
>>By Loric (Sunday, 4 Jan 2004 21:21)
I noticed someone else has asked this but i didn't see a reply. I figured I'd ask it, again.
In the movie, Donnie's mom is look at a "picture of Frank" above a calendar. The only thing was that Franks Ears were floppy instead of standing up.
I've been trying to find this picture or anything about it. If you know anything let me know.
>>By punkrawkjodi (Monday, 5 Jan 2004 10:19)
Like so many people on here i have been absolutely wowed by each further viewing of Donnie Darko.
Whilst i am interested and intrigued by the sci fi elements of the story, for me the achievements of this film are in the field of the study of humanity. Kelly has created a masterpiece of sensitive, funny, heart rendering direction with a central cast par excellence. Donnie Darko has touched me in places probabally more than any other film, poetry, literature or song, partly because of the successful amalgamation of all these mediums into cinema at its most complex, yet purest. A difficult feat. Whilst Kelly does not give us the answers to the larger questions in life surrounding god, meaning etc he shows us the beauty of life itself and the corrupting powers which threaten it.
Moments of particular beauty must include the eerie cinema scene:
Why are you wearing that stupid man suit?
Take it off.
Donnie's and Gretchens first kiss, which exemplifies even at times of extreme hurt and pain we can be reminded how beautiful the world can be through true emotion.
The last time Donnie and his mother see each other,
How does it feel to have a wacko for a son?
It feels wonderful.
And finally the very closing shot of the film, with the manipulated living/dead Gretchen and Donnie's mother connecting over something so intangable, yet the wonderful experiences of a tormented life. The small child who waves to us, the viewer, as the parting shot - a perfect cinematic goodbye.
>>By jakesmithdavies (Thursday, 8 Jan 2004 19:09)
Hi!
Just some thoughts:
Did anybody notice that when Donnie meets his doctor the first time and says that he has an imaginary friend called Frank, that Frank has never mentioned his name?so how could he know?
and the name Donnie / Donald (i looked on some name pages)
means (scottish) Ruler of the World or Great World Chief
(celtic) Dark Stranger and (english) world mighty,
so the name might be a sign already?!
and the axe in the head of the Dog Statue- may it be a symbol for schizophrenia/ maybe frank is a part of Donnie in some way? DOG <-> GOD or a sign for the splitted universes in gods mind (symbol head)?
and another thought:
when I heard the name Gretchen the first time the first thought was "Faust" the book by Goethe, in this popular book Faust is a man who wants to know what holds the world together in the deepest "inside" and he wants to know what is behind everything (Donnie as a parallel wants to find out about gods masterplan)
So Faust promised the Devil? (Mephisto) his soul if he gives him certain powers to find out what he wants to know/ Donnie also has special powers like seeing these things that come out of the chests or building a time machine (as he mentions at his doctor), and he says that he has to follow Frank if he wants to find out what the masterplan is.
another parallel is that Mephisto lets Faust meet a girl called Gretchen, she is very innocent, pure,a bit like a child and she wants to show Faust how wonderful the small things in the world can be.She also dies in the book...
I thought it might be interesting- especially because of the rare name Gretchen..who also plays a great role in "Faust"
What do you think?
>>By darkshinez (Friday, 9 Jan 2004 20:58)
Well i have read a lot of the thoughts on the discussion pages here(though not all).. a lot of good theories..
One thing that i havent heard any mention though is the Ensurance Trap mentioned in the book on the web site.
It seems to me that the events post-party that kills gretchen and frank as well as the plane engine breaking off of Donnies Mothers Plane are minor steps in a large Ensurance Trap.Frank has guided him very carefully into this trap to make sure he does what he is supposed to do. ( i think this plays with the free-will/destiny arguments mentioned earlier)
My basis for this :
1. frank makes donnie flood the school so he in turn meets gretchen and therefore begins to care for her.
2. frank telling donnie to set the house on fire which causes a chain of efftects that ends in donnies mother being abored the plane that the engine falls off of. )
just my thoughts. any opinions ..
Subere23
>>By subere23 (Friday, 16 Jan 2004 02:03)
Do you people dedicate your lives to this movie, and figuring out the hidden symbolism? Proceed, but damn. It' just a movie. It's just a very confusing movie.
>>By Montu - Sekhmet (Friday, 16 Jan 2004 20:08)
Pls be charitable and forgive me if this is rehash:
RE: Charita Chen. Isn't Carita Latin (or derived from Latin) for heart? If so, doesn't this lend more sense to her as the 'heart on her sleeve' super-sensitive person who must decide whether to toughen her skin against the mockery of the stupid, brutal masses, or choose to perservere as a person who gives love in spite of the pain that must follow?
Secondly--if Frank is manipulated dead seeking to help Donnie to choose the righ path--why call him out at the beginning, instead of simply allowing him to die at the beginning, preventing the tangent universe from being created, unless he is actually working AGAINST Donnie choosing to die? And if he is, and exists in some form of energy in the tangent universe (he is, after all--there!) doesn't that throw a bit of a monkey-wrench into the idea that the manipulated dead are trying to lead Donnie onto the correct path?
Also, something I read posted earlier didn't garner any responses, but I found it interesting: Frank says that his name is 'a family name.' To me this implies that in some tangent universe, this line of succession has worked to do SOMETHING about the line of events leading to the collapse of the known universe--perhaps the conundrums raised by the ideas of time travel mean that for generations, a line of 'Franks' has had the mission of either maintaining the real or tangent universe...
All speculation, pls shoot me down if necessary! I'm no expert, I've only seen the VHS version, and only 3-4 times.
-G
>>By gwendo (Friday, 16 Jan 2004 21:06)
One more thing: I know that Frank is Donnie's sis's bf from reading this board, but how is that explained by the VHS version of the film w/o director commentary, if at all?
>>By gwendo (Friday, 16 Jan 2004 21:08)
this is one fucked up movie and i love it
>>By Jackthepumpkinking (Sunday, 18 Jan 2004 01:41)
Here are some interesting things i noticed in the movie
1-The mom reads Stephen King at the beginning, and richard kelly plays camera tricks to make a time travel book by Stephen Hawking look like the author is Stephen King - Why?
2-At the movie theatre where Donnie sees The Last Temptation of Christ (he's Jesus and Cunningham is the anti-christ trying to stop him from fulfilling his destiny) the camera focuses on ER 3 times maybe because 2 characters (Noah Wylie and Donnie's mom) were on that show??
3-Is the fat guy in the red suit really an FAA guy or is there more to that?
4-Why do people jump on the trampolines? I think it is to show that they are naive or innocents and do not realize the crazy implications of the universe being messed up around them
5-Miss Farmer (the gym teacher) is having an affair with Cunningham - You see her at the end with a picture of a deer behind her bed - that she shares with Jim and loves him so much - she spearheads the save Jim campaign
6-I'm sure you all mentioned this but I read people who thought Frank was an angel or something - He's just a regular guy (Donnie's sister's boyfriend) who Donnie also creates as a double personality to help him accomplish his destiny (as he is a skitzophrenic) - This is true like when Donnie looks in the mirror trying to stab Frank's eye which is like the Fear and Love video where the woman says "I learned not only to look into the mirror but through the mirror and find myself" Frank also had to be a guy who ran over Gretchen in the Tangent Universe contributing to Donnie realizing his destiny.
2 other mentions of Frank in the movie prove this. Donnie's father talks of a guy Frank who he knew in school who died and says he was doomed and who reminds him of Donnie. Also Jim Cunningham's speech at the school speaks of a cartoon figure Frank who was troubled and consumed by fear.
7-Why in one of the pictures of the rabbit are the bunny ears down?
That's all I got for now. Sorry for writing so much and please reply with all your thoughts and theories. Peace
>>By jazoom (Sunday, 18 Jan 2004 18:44)
well this was my interputation of the movie.which i have to say is the bst ive eva seen...............
tangent universe: i think the tangent universe was created throught he fact that donnie didnt stay in bed. the appendix( that is ahead of you the path you are going to take) donnie should of stayed in bed which is what his appendix did. but getting out of bed therefore changes his written future created the tangent universe. he stepped out of the primary universe with fixed perpose creating another dimention, the tangent universe.
why: there has to be a reason for the tangent universe to be created it is to get an artifact. (something that would not exist of happen in the primary universe. ) therefore when it is retrived changes the course of events in the future. in this case it is the jet plane engine but i think its hard to understand. i think this is its point.: if the tangent universe was not created then the jet plane engine would not exist. but it is needed to be retrived and brought back into the primary universe for one perpose to kill donnie.
frank only exists as the minipulated dead because donnie killed him in the tangent universe. that therefore means the tangent universe would be the origionall out come of the promary universe if donnie were not to die in the primary universe then, which he wouldnt if the tangent universe were not created. because frank knows that donnie killed him. he calls donnie out creating this tangent universe so that donnie can see what will happen or what frank has made donnie make happen so that through the worm hole that the living recepter (donnie in this case) can travel through an open with his powers. taking back in time the metal artifact which he will now stay in bed and let kill him and stop the world ending the universe colapsing,changing the future.
the film therefore being about how frank didnt want to die an changed the future through donnie so he could live on an the world not end.............................yet!
if theres anything anyone can tell me about it then please email me at helen_rocks2u@hotmail.com
>>By imagine (Monday, 19 Jan 2004 18:37)
Kenster! Thankyou for for answering my question of Roberta Sparow and the mailbox. It seems that in this movie, everything happens for a reason, and if you find a meaningless scene, its only because you haven't worked it out yet. It makes sense that she knew the letter would arrive, so she keeps checking. My question now is, that she could see Donnie's destiny in writing and sending the letter, but she didn't know when he would do it? That questions the values of time, what i is percieved as. And why was she so anxious to recieve the letter, what was her reaction? As far as I can see, she didn't respond in anway that would make a difference. Or did she just want to be assured that someone believed her, that someone shared her opinions, and saw what she did, Donnie didn't think she was crazy.
>>By thescarlettstar (Saturday, 24 Jan 2004 17:02)
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